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Wight Portal
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Carisbrooke
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 Posted: 13-12-2011, 13:05 Post subject: |
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Reading random posts of people's grievances, where a lot of information doesn't appear is fruitless.
How long had this person been claiming before going on the program?
Have they turned down retraining?
Have they failed to adhere to the Job Seekers agreement?
Who knows?
Without the full facts how can you judge what's happening? |
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Isle of Wight Forum
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 13:05 Post subject: Sponsored links |
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Sponsored links - register and/or login to hide this ad.
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 13:19 Post subject: |
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| you have made 311 random posts on this forum giving your own opinions and experiences wight portal .Does the same logic apply to you - that they were fruitless? |
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Wight Portal
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Carisbrooke
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 13:30 Post subject: |
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| You posted the link, I'm just saying you can't make a judgement on one post that doesn't tell the whole story. |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 14:13 Post subject: |
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No wight portal you were saying that no-one can make a judgement on posts (plural) of people giving their personal experiences because that wasn't giving the full story.
Are we to understand that it is acceptable for these draconian sanctions to be imposed on an individual if the 'full story' is known and reveals that due to the action ,or inaction ,of that individual a level of punishment was justified.
If the Work programme is indeed a punishment how can it be justifiably applied to the many who are being exploited by the Work Programme for merely being unfortunately unemployed. Is unemployment against the rules? |
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Wight Portal
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Carisbrooke
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 15:35 Post subject: |
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The post you linked to tells you nothing except the person doesn't like working for his benefit.
Not knowing the circumstances of why they were put into this situation in the first place doesn't prove that the system is draconian.
For all you know they could be venting their spleen because having to work for their benefit has messed up their work on the side.
So basically in this case your whole argument is based on what?
A rant from someone you don't know from Adam.
If you were to lose your job tomorrow what would you do?
You already know that employment is scarce here on the Island.
So would you sign on and hope that another job comes up soon?
Meanwhile your debt, whether it be a mortgage or credit cards, bank loans etc are escalating; Or would you take control of your life and do something about it?
Unfortunately in this country schools teach you to do well, get good exam results and then you'll have more chance of getting a good job. They don't teach what to do when there isn't any jobs.
There's kids with all sorts of degrees in all manner of subjects that are flipping burgers for a living, because they were led to believe they would get a good job if they get the qualifications.
Now you've been ranting on how the current system is unfair and making people into slaves.
So here's a challenge for you.
If you were in charge how would you save the Welfare State?
Don't just offer an answer off the top of your head, go and research the costs involved to implement your ideas nationwide.
If you come up with a sustainable solution I will back you all the way. |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 16:41 Post subject: |
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How patronising are you wight portal?
Do you really believe I care less whether I, or anybody else has your backing?
Try taking a look at all the websites that are opposing these corrupt schemes, have they gone to all that effort for the sake of it? Or do they reflect what the internet is really about people taking action to help themselves and others by exposing these sharp practices . The complete opposite to your website which failed dismally because it was all about you trying to make a quick buck .Which was also the only reason you started sharing your one sided views on this forum - trying desperately to attract people to your own website for your own gain.
As for me coming up with solutions I am not a politician , but that is why we elect politician to find solutions to difficult problems ,not to exploit us for the gain of themselves and big business. |
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Wight Portal
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 326
Location: Carisbrooke
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 18:47 Post subject: |
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If you have to start slinging mud, I guess your art of debate is flagging.
Saying I elect politicians to so sort out the difficult problems is a cop out, especially when you're saying that's exactly what they are not doing.
Being up in arms about it is good, but to strengthen your argument you have to have some sort of solution that will be better or you're bellowing for nothing, because even if you get it stopped something else you won't like will materialise to replace it and so the battle will continue.
Real change only comes with real alternatives. |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 18:56 Post subject: |
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From the Guardian:
| Quote: | "The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) says that if jobseekers "express an interest" in an offer of work experience they must continue to work without pay, after a one-week cooling-off period or face having their benefits docked.
Young people have told the Guardian that they are doing up to 30 hours a week of unpaid labour and have to be available from 9am to 10pm.
In three such cases jobseekers also claim they were not told about the week's cooling-off period, and that once they showed a willingness to take part in the scheme they were told by their case manager they would be stripped of their £53- a-week jobseekers allowance (JSA) if they backed out." http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/16/young-jobseekers-work-pay-unemployment |
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nuttybob
Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Isle of Wight
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 22:41 Post subject: |
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From that same Guardian article:
| Quote: | | As part of her placement Reilly has been given training at another company, which will gives her a City and Guilds qualification in retail. |
So the young lady is still in receipt of her benefit plus she earns a qualification that she would otherwise have had to pay for.
And of James Rayburn in the article:
| Quote: | | He was working at Tesco with two other young unemployed people who did get a job at the end of their placement. |
So there's an example of the scheme working to get those two people jobs. |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 13-12-2011, 23:22 Post subject: |
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Work Programme a breach of their human rights under article 4 (2) of the Human Rights Act
| Quote: | Solicitors from Public Interest Lawyers in Birmingham acting on behalf of two clients involved in the mandatory work activity programme have told the Guardian that they are seeking a judicial review of the scheme, arguing their clients were being forced to work against their will, amounting to a breach of their human rights under article 4 (2) of the HRA, which states: "No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour."
Jim Duffy from PIL said: "Forcing jobseekers to work for free may benefit big business but does nothing to break the cycle of unemployment and poverty. Instead it amounts to exploitation, decided at the whim of a Jobcentre Plus adviser."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/16/young-jobseekers-work-pay-unemployment |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 14-12-2011, 00:05 Post subject: |
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Since Grafter posted this thread on 22 of October there have been 100 replies and 2164 views . Which I suspect may be something of a record here.
Therefore in 52 days there have been an average of over 40 views a day resulting in a great many Islanders attention being drawn to this outrageous practice and injustice .I for one would like to thank Wight Portal and Nutty Bob for adopting the role of the devils advocate in order to assist in bringing this issue to the attention of this forum and the Islands people in general .
Also a big thank you to Grafter for his insight, if only Wight Portal could conjure such inspiration he might actually manage to attract a similar influx of visitors to his own website . |
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chaz
Joined: 19 Dec 2011
Posts: 3
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| Posted: 19-12-2011, 16:26 Post subject: |
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Dear All
Before money there was trade. Money was invented to lubricate the trading process, making it quicker and easier to obtain necessities. The useful metals used to make coins meant they had an inherent value. Nowadays coins are not made from the equivalent amount of gold or silver, meaning that they are no longer actually worth the values that they represent. Money is now only literally worth it's scrap value.
Try learning about the fractal banking system (which is the system used in Great Britain). Money = debt, money is debt, it says on a banknote, "I agree to pay the bearer £x" i.e. future tense. Look at "a system of modern slavery" part one onwards on YouTube and "economic hitmen".
Chaz |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 04-01-2012, 14:13 Post subject: |
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Don’t volunteer for “Work experience”
Once you volunteer for job centre ‘work experience’ it becomes mandatory. Then if you stop doing this work experience, your benefits can be stopped.
Make sure this doesn’t happen to you:
Do not agree to volunteer for the job centre’s “work experience”: It quickly becomes forced unpaid labour.
If you want to do work experience, find something that is really voluntary.
If you are sent on the scheme, you must turn up on the first day- but you do not face sanctions if you leave within during the first week (unless this is due to misconduct).
Read more here http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=280
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Batfloke
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Posts: 20
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| Posted: 12-01-2012, 19:35 Post subject: |
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| New Normal Laugh wrote: | | Try taking a look at all the websites that are opposing these corrupt schemes, have they gone to all that effort for the sake of it? |
So by your rational, the more people that shout stupid things loudly, the more justification there is for it? I only ask because there are a lot more terrorist websites demanding the end of western civilisation than there are begging not to be put to work for the money they get. By your rational, the terrorists are even more right than you. Really?
Just wondering....
| New Normal Laugh wrote: | | ...their clients were being forced to work against their will, amounting to a breach of their human rights under article 4 (2) of the HRA, which states: "No one shall be required to perform forced or compulsory labour." |
No-one is being forced to - there is a choice. Take the benefits for 18 months in return for 2 weeks of work for ONLY 5 HOURS PER DAY or leave and find someone else to pay your bills.
In 18 months there are 78 weeks. Multiply this by £55 per week JSA (a rounded figure) and you get £4,290. Add to this a housing benefit payment of (average) £650 PCM and you get £11,700. In addition to this you get free dental, free prescriptions, child tax credits (depending on your circumstances), child benefit (again, depending) et al. Now, assuming you're a single guy on benefits in a flat that the benefit is paying say £400 per month (which up here is roughly the weekly amount in some areas) AND didn't see the doctor, go to the dentist or get a free wig, then you would receive in JSA and HB alone £11,490. For which you are required to do 20 hours a week for 2 weeks giving a total of 40 hours every 18 months. Divide the £11,490 by the 40 hours and you get £287.25 per hour.
If I earned that for a 14 hour day I'd be laughing my bits off! And you think there's something wrong?
Again, just wondering...
| New Normal Laugh wrote: | | Make sure this doesn’t happen to you: |
Yeah - make sure you're untouchable by these proposals by GETTING A JOB! |
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New Normal Laugh
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 72
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| Posted: 12-01-2012, 20:55 Post subject: |
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lol calm yourself down or you're likely to have a coronary, what are you a wannabe writer for the Daily (hate) Mail? Haha
Mod edit: removed quote of entire previous post and bold. |
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